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Re: [Sheflug] RedHat and Script Kiddies
>>>>> "Al" == Alex Hudson <home [at] alexhudson.com> writes:
Al> On 22 Jan 2001 10:10:48 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Al> Even stuff like the kernel source - I don't think I've ever had a
Al> kernel source rpm install itself properly on a 6.1/6.2 machine
>> Doesn't RedHat have make-kpkg _yet_?
Al> Heh, don't get ahead of yourself Stephen!! I wasn't talking
Al> about something funky, like an rpm --rebuild
Al> kernel-du-jour.srpm.
I'm not, either. I'm talking about
cd /usr/src
wget http://www.kernel.org/linux/v2.2/linux-$LATEST.tar.bz2
tar xjf linux-$LATEST.tar.bz2
# next cmd does make oldconfig on existing .config
make-kpkg --revision=$LATEST-sjt+1 kernel_image
cd ..
dpkg --install kernel-image-$LATEST_$LATEST-sjt+1
# check lilo.conf here
lilo
shutdown -r now
The point is that I _never_ have to deal with Debian randomness on top
of Torvalds/Cox randomness. If I want to, I can get the official
source debs. But I don't think anybody does that anymore.
Al> I was talking about upgrading source trees with a source rpm
Al> and expecting them to be compilable (hint: they aren't). I
Al> personally think it's to do with the /usr/src/linux madness
Al> that persists, but never mind...
I think make-kpkg proves that's wrong.
Al> . and actually, I'm shuddering at the thought of using some
Al> redhat-thing to make a kernel rpm to install. Brrrr.
>> Debian doesn't quite get this latter right (it keeps trying to
>> upgrade my PCMCIA _modules_ which would screw things proper)
Al> I seem to recall having PCMCIA problems too, with potato I
Al> think. Works okay at the moment, although the DHCP client
Al> stuff seems to be screwed (i.e., it's there, it's configured,
Al> it don't work). I end up having to 'pump -i eth0' manually
Al> every time.
I think that's Hines randomness. I think all the sensible distros
simply throw David's shit out the window, but Debian keeps struggling
on with it.
But I wasn't talking about PCMCIA itself, only the Debian packaging
thereof.
>> Then they ought to provide RH-specific patch kits (as RPMs, of
>> course) for features that RH provides that Linus doesn't.
Al> Or maybe they should ship stock kernels :))
Same thing, right?
I don't think they should ship stock kernel binaries. First, some of
their "improvements" actually are, if you can afford to buy pre-setup
from the "approved list" of hardware vendors. (AFAIK there is no such
thing, but some vendors will work better than others :-(. ) Others
are popular features, with wannabes who can't compile their own
kernels.
I think that's a reasonable business model: sell to those with more
money than brains, provide source downloads for those with more brains
than money.
But the base kernel source SRPM should be pristine with just enough
patching to make a Red Hat compliant RPM. Then there should be source
patch RPMs, "feature" by bug^Wfeature.
Barrie> What is this "/usr/src/linux" madness that you mention?
Yeah, I'm curious about this, too.
Barrie> About the only thing I've noticed is a pointless
Barrie> /usr/src/redhat directory, which seems to serve to
Barrie> particular purpose.
No, this is _not_ pointless. This is one of the good things that
RedHat has done. /usr/src is on the face of it the province of the
vendor. In practice "friendly" admins over the years have used that
for "official" installs of 3rd-party software to the main hierachies
(/ and /usr). Then /usr/local is opened up to the "trusted elite", as
a place to share "unofficial" software.
This means that in practice the vendor should not impose special
structure (SOURCES, BUILDS, SPECS, ...) on /usr/src. Thus /usr/src/redhat.
Barrie> Red Hat seem to be famous for making stupid decisions
Barrie> over the years...
Depends on whether you consider them an independent business (which
has been rather successful) or a subsidiary of Torvalds & Co, a sole
proprietorship which has never run a profit as far as I know. ;-)
I refuse to install Red Hat in my own boxen, but I'm not sure I
wouldn't go with them if I were installing for my mother.
--
University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences Tel/fax: +81 (298) 53-5091
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